Legislature(2001 - 2002)
03/08/2001 08:02 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 95-CONTROL OF CAPITOL SPACE Number 2677 CHAIR COGHILL called the House State Affairs Standing Committee back to order and announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 95, "An Act relating to control of space in the state capitol and other buildings occupied by the legislature and its agencies; and providing for an effective date." Number 2665 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN came forward to testify as sponsor of HB 95. He began by saying that HB 95 is not directed at the present governor, but would take effect at the time of transition to the next governor. What HB 95 does is to transfer the power to control the third floor of the capitol building from the governor to the legislative council. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN called attention to Page 1, Line 9 of HB 95, where it talks about legislative affairs being directed by the legislature. House Bill 95 changes "legislature" to "Alaska Legislative Council" because the legislative council controls the assets of the legislature throughout the year. For example, remodeling of the Terry Miller Building, formerly Capital School, into legislative office space was managed through the legislative council. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said HB 95 does not mandate that the governor move from the third floor. All it does is to give the legislative council the authority to control the third floor. If the council wishes to have the governor move out, the council could do so. He pointed to the committee room as an example of why the legislature needs more space in the capitol, noting that there were fewer than a dozen seats for the public and those who wish to testify and that two staff members have workstations in the room. "When you get a lot of people interested in legislation, there's no place for them to sit," he said. He has seen a half-dozen people standing at the door to listen. The only thing that helps mitigate the problem is that Gavel-to- Gavel is broadcasting the meeting and people can watch in their offices. He recalled a recent hearing in which a staff member tripped on the attorney general's foot because it was so crowded in the room. He alluded to safety hazards in the building and said, "Frankly, I hope we move where the legislature meets, ... but if that doesn't happen, then I think this is an appropriate action that Leg Council be given the authority to take over the third floor if we need it." The average size of a committee room now is 650 square feet. Representative Ogan said very few state capitols house the governor's office. Number 2442 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN then addressed the fiscal notes, noting that some had asterisks indicating information that was not yet available. He asserted that the fiscal note should be zero because passing HB 95 does not move the governor from the third floor; it simply gives the legislative council the authority to do that. "It doesn't cost anything to transfer the management of the third floor from the governor's office to the leg council," he said. "It only costs if leg council makes that decision," and he didn't think a fiscal note should be based on speculation about what the legislative council would do. Number 2362 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES thought HB 95 had "a lot of merit." She asked Representative Ogan to define what a capitol building is. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN believed a capitol building is "where the capitol is located and where the seat of government is. He pointed out that the capitol building in Washington, D.C. does not house the president or the president's staff. He would be very open to allowing a "presence" for the governor's office to remain on the third floor: "some conference rooms, the governor's legislative liaisons, that type of thing where legislative leaders could sit down with the governor during the end of sessions and have some meetings ...." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES OBSERVED, "This is a step that could take us in one direction or another .... The question is, do we need to do this ... because we want to have these options." She noted that some of the options included moving the legislature to Anchorage. She wondered if the building the legislature owns in Anchorage is "any kind of an annex of the capitol, [or] is it just a building. Would it be called the legislative building? ... And if the governors stays in the capitol building, is it a "capitol building ..." And if the legislature remains in the capitol building and governor moves out, what would the building where he has moved be called? Number 2192 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN suspected that it would be called the State Office Building. He also noted that the Court Plaza Building, which the state owns, now is empty [for extensive repair work following an oil leak]. He thought the governor could move in there. It would be possible for Juneau to remain the capital city, but for the legislature to meet somewhere else, he said. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES recalled growing up in Oregon, where there was a main building with a dome and a series of building on both sides that housed almost all the state offices. The whole complex was "the capitol." She thought HB 95 was a good idea "because it would give us options." She wondered if HB 95 passed and other state offices still surrounded the building, would the whole area be known as "the capitol?" REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied that capital with an "a" is the capital city, and Webster's dictionary defines capitol with an "o" as "the edifice occupied by [the] Congress of the United States, [and], by extension, the state house or house [in] which the legislature holds it sessions." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES understood his response to mean that the governor does not have to be in the capitol, but the legislature does. Number 2014 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON, who previously had served in the North Carolina legislature, said she was surprised when she saw "how small everything was" in the Alaska capitol. She noted that when committees meet, there is no room for people. North Carolina has a two-story legislative building with galleries for both houses plus a 5-story legislative office building and a bridge going over the street between the two. She thought HB 95 was a good idea because "we need more space." Number 1902 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he was most concerned with "getting some decent-sized committee rooms." Number 1860 CHAIR COGHILL though that there were several issues that could be addressed if the legislative council had control of the [whole] building. He noted that there was "quite a commotion" the previous day as students were moved in and out of the galleries to observe the legislature in action. He then asked Representative Ogan if he had anticipated the use of the building during the months of the year when the legislature is not in session. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he hadn't thought about that and assumed that the third floor, like the rest of the building, would be "primarily unoccupied during the interim." CHAIR COGHILL pointed out that during the interim, there are a lot of visitors in town and he assumed the historic value of the building would be used. Number 1750 JIM DUNCAN, Commissioner, Department of Administration, came forward to testify specifically on the fiscal note presented by the administration. He made it clear that his testimony would not be on the merits of HB 95, and that his comments about the fiscal note that the Department of Administration is preparing in regard to HB 95 should not be interpreted as a position on the bill by the administration. He wanted to provide information about what the administration was doing in response to the bill. Although HB 95 only turns control of the capitol building over to the legislature and does not specify that the governor's office would be relocated, the Department of Administration is proceeding because of the intent of the legislation, which is to allow that to happen. MR. DUNCAN thought it was important that the committee have full information before making a policy decision on HB 95. The fiscal note prepared by the Office of the Governor does not have dollars attached to it, but the analysis clearly explains [the effects]. The administration last week contracted with a local architectural firm (Jensen, Yorba, Lott, Inc.) to evaluate a specific scenario for relocating the governor's office. The architects are studying moving those offices to the eleventh floor of the State Office Building and moving the present occupants of that floor to the Court Plaza Building. They are looking at the space available and the needs of the affected agencies, and proposing a design along with a cost estimate. Mr. Duncan reminded the committee that the State Office Building contains asbestos, which is being removed. There now are no hard walls on the eleventh floor, and those would be required for security reasons. The architects also are proposing a time line for making the modifications and moves. The contract calls for the study to be complete in two weeks, or by April 1 at the latest. At that time the administration can provide a complete fiscal note. Number 1269 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES responded, "Commissioner Duncan, I'm impressed, because I think that what you're planning to do is something we need to know." She said she thought the information should be provided as a "contingent" fiscal note because HB 95 does not authorize any changes other than a transfer of authority. MR. DUNCAN said the intent would be to provide this committee and the legislature with the impact of a possible relocation of the executive from the capitol building. If a decision is made not to do that, the money would not be needed. He wants to make sure that the legislature knows that if it decides to relocate the governor's offices, that could not be done without some expenditure of dollars. Number 1152 REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS wanted to know if the architects also would be looking at reconfiguration of the third floor of the capitol for use by the legislature. MR. DUNCAN concurred that the two issues fit together, however, the scope of the study that the administration is doing does not include any work on the capitol space they would be vacating. The administration assumes that the legislative council would plan the reconfiguration and study what those costs would be. CHAIR COGHILL voiced appreciation for the study the administration is doing, saying it was "indicative of really how we struggle with the whole capital issue ... and how to make things work." He asked how much the administration is paying for the study. MR. DUNCAN said the contract is for $18,000. Number 1049 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked where the rest of the administration's offices are located. MR. DUNCAN said the governor's Office of Management and Budget, Administrative Services, and Governmental Coordination used to be in the Court Plaza Building, as were the Division of Elections and the Advisory Council on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse. Since the oil leak in mid-December, the building had to be vacated and the displaced departments are temporarily being housed in dispersed, leased spaces in the downtown core area. Those departments are scheduled to move back into the Court Plaza Building in July. REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked if there was going to be any extra space available in the Court Plaza Building. MR. DUNCAN said there previously had been some private tenants in the building, and there may be one small office available when the work is completed. REPRESENTATIVE WILSON observed that the cost of asbestos removal is "horrendous." She wondered why that would be needed. MR. DUNCAN said the asbestos work he mentioned would be needed in conjunction with remodeling the eleventh floor for the governor's office. It is impossible to do any type of renovation or improvement in the State Office Building without dealing with the asbestos in the affected area. Number 0791 REPRESENTATIVE FATE wanted to clarify that Mr. Duncan was present not to testify on HB 95, but simply to inform the committee of certain costs or endeavors to ascertain those costs based on the assumption that if HB 95 were passed, the legislature through its legislative council then would have the authority to perhaps make these changes. He said he was a little confused about whether Mr. Duncan was present to testify on HB 95 or to provide information based on assumptions. MR. DUNCAN repeated that he wanted to make it clear that his testimony was not on the merits of HB 95 or on the administration's position on HB 95 or on whether there should be any relocation of offices. "My testimony was to let this committee know we have not been able to provide you with information on a fiscal note because it is indeterminate at this point. We're doing a study to determine what the possible impacts would be, monetary-wise and space-wise, if this bill passed, if the legislative council made a decision to relocate offices." REPRESENTATIVE FATE asked if HB 95 prompted the administration to contract for the $18,000 study, or if they were anticipating doing it anyway because there was some remodeling that needed to be done. MR. DUNCAN replied, "This bill prompted this study. We ... have a list of projects that need to be done to the State Office Building as a whole if we were to just leave it as a state office building. We also know what needs to be done to the Court Plaza Building if it is going to be [the] type of office building it presently is. This [study] was to look at any other additional improvements that would need to be made as a result of this piece of legislation." Number 0617 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON wanted to know what was available on the third floor of the capitol building, specifically if there was a conference room the legislature could use without changing things around. MR. DUNCAN said there is a series of offices along the halls, a suite of larger offices that the governor occupies, and a large conference room that the governor uses. REPRESENTATIVE WILSON wanted to know if there was a conference room bigger than the committee room. If HB 95 were to pass and the legislature wanted to use some of the space on the third floor, were there rooms big enough to use for conference rooms. MR. DUNCAN deferred comment, as that would be a decision for the legislature to make. CHAIR COGHILL said he guessed that the legislature would probably do some remodeling, but not too much because of the cost. REPRESENTATIVE WILSON just wanted to know if there was a room up there now bigger than this room. CHAIR COGHILL said yes. Number 0354 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked the chair to rule the fiscal notes issued by the administration and the governor's office to be out of order. The issue addressed by HB 95 is transferring authority to the legislative council. There is no cost involved in doing so. Only if the legislative council decides to move the governor off the third floor will there be a cost, and there is a procedure for that. A budget must be prepared and submitted to the Finance Committee, and only then is there an associated fiscal note. Representative Ogan said the zero fiscal note from Legislative Affairs was the only one relevant to HB 95. Number 0206 REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS appreciated the point Representative Ogan was making, but thought "there's a little coyness in saying we will take it over but there's no cost to it." He thinks what the governor's office has done is perfectly reasonable, to begin making plans for what they will do. He thinks the legislature needs to do the same thing, talk to an architect, and see what changes are needed to make the third floor space usable for legislative needs. He thinks the legislature needs to proceed with some plans, and he thinks it is "disingenuous" to say that there is no cost. Number 0117 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN appreciated the foresight of the administration in having the study done, "but as far as its being relevant to this bill itself, all this bill does is transfer the authority. Any costs of the transfer of authority would be borne by LAA [the Legislative Affairs Agency]. LAA has said that's a zero cost. The only time that really a fiscal note is appropriate ... would be if leg council decides to move the governor off the third floor. So I'm just saying [that] procedurally, I think these fiscal notes at this juncture for this particular bill and for what this bill actually does are out of order." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES agreed with Representative Ogan that HB 95 should have no fiscal note. TAPE 01-19, SIDE A REPRESENTATIVE JAMES was pleased that the administration has undertaken its study and does not think that should be perceived as a threat against HB 95. Any fiscal note that comes in from the administration should be considered a contingent fiscal note. Number 0131 REPRESENTATIVE FATE would not like to see a contingent fiscal note stand in the way of good legislation. Number 0189 CHAIR COGHILL said his intent as chair is to go ahead and "zero out" the fiscal notes and pass HB 95 to the Finance Committee with the idea that there is a forthcoming study that is totally independent of this bill but that can be a part of the discussion. He thinks the administration has done a wonderful job in going ahead and starting planning. They've already put their own dollars into it. By the time the Finance Committee is able to review HB 95, the information from the study should be available to them. Number 0292 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON moved to report HB 95 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal note from Legislative Affairs. There being no objection, House Bill 95 was passed from the House State Affairs Standing Committee.
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